Someone on reddit harassed me over their perceived notion that I am discrediting the experiences of binary trans people. I made this poll so I can inform my opinions with data and share the data with the community. I take such accusations really seriously, even if they're coming from transmedicalists (in this case, it was coming from one of those "LGBT without the Q" people). It would be fantastic to have all of you represented, no matter what gender identity you have!
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annoyingly, one thing that has become clear to me from the results of this form is that there are self identifying "anti-queer transsexuals" in toki pona spaces. Not sure how to feel about that.
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toki pona spaces
i get the sense this is a reddit thing
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like probably. I would still like anyone who self identifies as "anti-queer" to ... not be involved with toki pona.
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oh definitely agreed.
mi lukin e jan ni lon ma [Bluesky] → kulupu pi sijelo wan li ike tawa ona la ona li weka tan ma pi toki [pona] · kin ijo li weka tan ma [pona] la ona li kama lon ma ante pi sona ala mi anu seme · kin kin mi lukin e ijo pi toki [pona] tan tenpo weka lon ma jaki [4chan]
mi kin li lukin e ni, jan ante li pana e sona ni tawa mi. jan ni li ike mute.
my personal usage of tonsi redefines it as a term describing the shared experiences of people who have marginalized gender identities. that includes trans people, nonbinary people, gender nonconforming people, etc. I think binding together as a group is important, so limiting the word to a subset of that group defined by a shared struggle is something I've never wanted to do.
but the only usage of tonsi that I don't like is the one that assumes that "meli tonsi" is inherently less meli than a "meli pi tonsi ala," which is just a calque of "transwoman" [sic] at worst and a lexicalization (so, just like "transwoman" instead of "trans woman") at different best.
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Total outsider to the struggle here, just going by my intuition that I normally like to trust because the internal logic seems compelling, even if its uninformed to the point of being completely wrong.
I see tonsi as
- a gender word for people for whom meli (female) and mije (male) are not correct, and
- secondarily, a word for describing people of nonconforming gender status, going by the etymology of "同志 (tóngzhì); comrade".
As such I see validity in using it to describe gender status of either type, and this whole thing as an example of the broad semantic spaces in toki pona, to be narrowed down by modifiers if necessary.
That said, I think the main thing I will need this word for is describing someone's gender, and if I want to refer to a binary trans-person, I think they'd prefer that I refer to them by their trans gender (meli or mije), on the grounds that that is their true gender, and anything else (e.g. their apparent gender before transitioning, their transness, or their sexuality) is a different property, possibly related to their gender, but not the gender itself.
I'm happy to be prescribed to by anyone who understands consequences of a usage pattern like this. Other than that, this is my description of how I, as a tokiponist, currently see the word.
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and if I want to refer to a binary trans-person, I think they'd prefer that I refer to them by their trans gender (meli or mije)
well, yes, i don't think anyone would disagree with you on this. but i'm curious how you would refer to / talk about their transness? how would you say "she is trans"?
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"ona li kama mije/meli/tonsi" li ken... but transness is a personal experience so it's hard to describe without making assumptions / understanding their experience, which I think is neat
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that's definitely true!
i have refilled the form due to some changed preferences
i think meli and mije is fine, but now i think whenever one wants to use tonsi it can be worth it to use full sentences to add context and be more specific than a mere "tonsi"
I've been hesitant to talk about this, because queer infighting is absolutely counterproductive and i don't want to contribute to it. I hope this is not taken as such. Plus, i'm probably a hypocrite. If you asked me to say Blåhaj in Toki Pona, for example, i'd jump to kala tonsi for "trans shark" without even thinking about it.
With that said…
Like… The whole point of tonsi was to have a nonbinary equivalent to meli and mije, right? This is why everyone fought for the word in the first place…?
To be honest, using tonsi for "trans" feels like language is being taken from me, even though i'm also trans. It conveys that even among tokiponists, nonbinary identity is not valued equally to womanhood or manhood. This word, coined specifically to position it as such, has been diluted in meaning, while no such thing has happened to the words for the gender binary. What other message is that supposed to send?
I hate how territorial this makes me feel. In general, i doubt this kind of situation is worth policing. But the circumstances feel unique. This is a conlang with a limited vocabulary. Each word starts out with a prescribed definition. This word was specifically advocated as a piece of inclusive language for a particular marginalized group. And none of that mattered. The word wasn't useful enough that way, i guess? (Which implies that marginalized groups shouldn't have anything for themselves…)
And we'll never get a new word just for "nonbinary" because tonsi is in common usage and is already defined as that. There's no hope of displacing it. Thinking about it this way, i'm honestly wondering if i'd rather have tonsi fall into disuse and just hope meli and mije follow suit. Which is not how i want to regard a word that was coined to describe me.
It also seems insulting in the other direction. Suppose someone calls a binary trans person "a [woman/man] but like in a nonbinary way". Like, they felt the need to describe someone as "other gender" just because that person isn't cis. I don't think you'd have to be transmed to take offense at that.
Toki Pona doesn't even have a word for "cis" such that you need an equivalent for "trans", so there's no need to do this. Please take a moment to contemplate:
How would you describe someone as cis in Toki Pona?
Why reproduce the system where people are assumed cisgender until stated otherwise? The system with the "normal–trans" dichotomy? The system that leads so many of us to doubt and gatekeep ourselves for years, questioning whether we're "really trans", all the while presuming cishood without evidence? This feels like a bad idea that will not work in our interests in the longterm.
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mi kin li kama wile sona e ni · mi pali e lipu pi musi [Celeste] li wile nasin pi jan [Madeline]
- "ona li meli tonsi" la · jaki · tan li lon toki pini · mi sitelen e ni tan ni anu seme → nimi "tonsi" en nimi "trans" li sama kalama
- "ona li meli" taso la · nasin ona li suli tawa mama ona [Maddy] · ona li lipu a e ni · nasin li suli tawa jan musi mute kin pi nasin sama
- "ona li kama meli" la · n · jan mute pi nasin ni li toki e ni → ona li meli anu mije anu tonsi lon tenpo ale · la nimi "kama" li ken ike tawa ona
- "ona li kama sona e meli ona" la · (soweli [Tekinowi] li pana e ni tawa mi) · mi toki e ijo pi jan [Maddy] la ni li wawa tan ni → ona li kama sona a lon pini pi pali musi · taso insa musi la jan [Madeline] li sona lon open · la ni ala anu seme
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mi ken ala sona e nasin pona! nasin ale la nasa