"Trade" and quaternary predicates.

Workshop Translation Challenge
21

oh I remembered, UNLWS handles this in an interesting way; let me double check with the reference grammar

22

found it!

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My lang kót wàwa doesn’t have the grammatical features to let you say it all at once, but does let you break up the sentence cleanly.

ján Bɛ̀l en ján Bò li èsu lì-ní: Pɛ́l li bàna e kíl àm-ip dàu-Pó nik Pó li bàna e kíl zùwi-ip dàu-Pɛ́l.

  • person Belle and person Beau |do trade doing-this: Belle |does give OBJ:-(fruit of_land) to-Beau |and Beau |does give OBJ:-(fruit sweet) to-Belle.
  • i.e. “Belle and Beau trade and the trade does this: Belle gives a potato to Beau and Beau gives an apple to Belle.”
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Lojban: {vecnu}'s place structure accomodates all four participants:

x₁ [seller] sells/vends x₂ [goods/service/commodity] to buyer x₃ for amount/cost/expense x₄.

{canja} does so too:

x₁ exchanges/trades/barters commodity x₂ for x₃ with x₄

So your example sentence could be translated as {la .bel. cu canja lo patlu lo plise la .bos.}
(Belle trades a potato for an apple with Beau)

Strictly speaking, these are not cases, but rather word-specific templates for the relation. Cases would look more like Ithkuil. (There is even a case that means “in exchange for X”, which is perfect here!)

As for Ithkuil, it would probably just use specific cases, including the Commutative (CMM) whose meaning is “in exchange for X”, though the specific cases to be used for the other parties I am still not quite sure of. You could also say “Belle gives a potato to Beau in exchange for an apple”, which could be rendered as “give Belle-ERG Beau-DAT potato-THM apple-CMM”

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Yeah, canja is what I’d use in Lojban. I analyze Lojban’s place structure as an esoteric case system, where the relation between each case and verb (selbri) is rigorously defined. So under this analysis, Lojban essentially has five[1] cases, and so uses the four cases approach above.

  1. Technically it has an infinite number of cases with faxixokau[2], but this is rarely relevant in practice. ↩︎

  2. The fact that I can even say this is pathological. ↩︎

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In Ŋarâþ Crîþ, you would use two separate ditransitive verbs: vaðit ‘buy’ and orłat ‘sell’:

*vele *#voħos vadanon orłaþ nemirin vaðal.

*vel-e *#voħ-os vad-anon orł-aþ nem-irin vað-al.
(name)-NOM.SG (name)-DAT.SG tuber-ACC.SG sell-SER apple-ACC.SG buy-3SG.INV

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Belle trades Beau an potato for an apple.

Vordynian

«Bōu'd mracōıdd'Bēl ükōrğpï mă pōme.»
/boːʊ̯dᵊ‿mrɑcʌːɪ̯ɖə bɛːl ʊkoːʀpi mɐ pɔːmɜ/
To Beau, Belle trades an potato for an apple.

Bargirian

"Bıl kaorbîkkoînaBow, kkartop ja îablokk."
/bɨl kɒrbiqoi̯nɑbow, qɑrtop ɟ͡ʝɑ iɑ̯bloq/
Belle trades with Beau, potato for apple.

Kentauri

Bêllə mraḳ́ôı nə Q̣ãrttōfəl̦l̦ tõı Apəll mt Bôŭ.
/bɛɭə mrɑcʼɔi̯ nə qʼɐrʈʌofəɫɭ tɤi̯ ɑpəɭ mətəb̚‿bɔu̯/
Belle trades a potato for an apple with Beau.

Śhîlawite

Belâ îrahâu Bou Kôrtöppašt hîa môu Mahâmen.
/bɜlʌ iʀɑxʌu̯ bou̯ kɒʀtøpʼɑʂt jɑ mɒu̯ mɑxʌmɜn/
Belle trades Beau a potato for an apple.

Alephi

«Bẹl Bowıř lrýrě kāgḁ̃̀on - Qārtọ̄fẹ̄l îł̦ Ǣpə̄l.»
/bɛl˧ bowɪʀ˧ ɺyrɘ˦˧˥ kɑːgɒ̃ʊ̯ɴ˧˨, qɑːrtɔːfɛːl ɪɮ˧˩ æːpəːl˧/
Belle, to Beau, makes a trade - Potato for an Apple.